(Mistborn Trilogy ebook cover art by Sam Weber)
If you happened to look in on any number of participating sites last week, you will know that the conversation over the first 100 pages of Mistborn: Final Empire just exploded! Wow! Sanderson does have a way of generating questions and speculation. It was a promising start to both the book and the group reading experience and the book has just gotten better in this second section.
TBM was gracious enough to take the hosting reigns this week, coming up with the questions to lead off our discussion. Let’s get to it!
1. The nobility, the skaa, and the Lord Ruler have integral roles in the novel and yet we haven’t really interacted with them much. Do you think there is a reason for this? Have you formed an opinion about them?
With a writer of Sanderson’s talent I would have to imagine that there is a reason. What that reason is might be hard to guess. It could be that, because this was an early Sanderson work, his focus really was, and is, on telling the story of a small band of thieves entirely from their point of view. However, this could also be a really brilliant set up for a much richer story if we find out that Kelsier’s plan does not have all of the nobility he wants his crew to believe and if the Lord Ruler and others are not as black and white as they are portrayed from Kelsier’s point of view.
I know that when we read The Way of Kings (didn’t think I could make it far this week without bringing it up again. 😛 ) there were characters I had definite feelings about early in the story only to find that Sanderson changed my opinion and opened my mind and my expectations we learned more about each character. With two more novels after this one, I’m expecting (and hoping for) more of that to happen.
2. Religion plays a vital role in the story. What is your opinion about the role of religion under the Lord Ruler? What do you think of Sazed’s role as a Keeper.
“People are valuable, Mistress Vin, and so–therefore–are their beliefs.” Sazed’s statement to Vin as he reveals to her and to the reader that he is a Keeper so perfectly sums up, in my opinion, what we know thus far of the role of religion. Or at least the role of the Keepers. I look at the way Sazed described his role and feel that he is talking more about “culture” than “religion”. It reminded me of Native American cultures and other cultures that were lost, or parts of cultures that were lost, because no one passed them down. Because no one remembered. Sazed has a really honorable role as a Keeper. I wonder how Sanderson will use the character in the remainder of this novel and, if he lives, in the others.
The Lord Ruler, in allegedly destroying religions, and in the process cultural beliefs, is certainly not endearing himself to me in any way. It makes me even more suspicious of his “divinity”, although I was already suspicious of that. Sounds very much like the whole “diving right of kings” concept. It also makes me think that he is systematically subjugating people under himself by getting rid of their individuality and making them subservient to himself.
But the jury is still out because there is A LOT of book left to read.
3. Are you for/against/or ambivalent about Kelsier’s plan to overthrow the Lord Ruler? Do you think his heart is in the right place or is it just revenge?
I am for it largely because of the reason that it makes for a really good story. When I think of the impossibility of the tasks set before Kelsier and Co. I get the dueling voices of C3PO quoting the odds and Gimli (“Certainty of death, *small* chance of success… What are we waiting for?) in my head. It makes for good theater, as the saying goes. We have a handful of characters who exist in what appears to be a moral/ethical gray area and the story is structured in such a way that we find ourselves wanting to cheer for them. And yet their leader, Kelsier, tempers our elation because of his apparent glee in murdering people who also seem to exist in a moral/ethical gray area. It is good vs. evil twisted ever so slightly askew so that we cannot help but feel a little bit off kilter. Or to look at it another way, we are like Vin, waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting to see the “truth” and how it might betray us.
Tying this in to your first question, I think I am going to have to reserve judgment, even though I don’t feel very inclined at this moment to feel a great deal of empathy for a ruler who treats a whole class/race of people like worthless, easy-to-be-replaced slaves.
I certainly started out thinking this was all about revenge and yet my limited experience with Sanderson tells me that there could be something more there. It will be interesting to see, if there are varying motives, how those motives may war with one another inside Kelsier as the task unfolds.
4. Vin and Kelsier are the main characters of the novel, yet there are many characters. Is there a certain character who intrigues you more than the others?
Kelsier’s wife, Mare, certainly intrigues me. She has been an important offstage character since early in the story as we learn that she is a prime motivation for the actions that Kelsier is taking. We are starting get some small tidbits about her character and I imagine we will learn much more about her in the time to come.
I wouldn’t say Dockson, “Dox”, intrigues me necessarily but I do really like the character. My impressions of him thus far are that of a loveable rogue sidekick–John Rhys-Davies’ “Sallah” to Harrison Ford’s “Indiana Jones”.
A couple of other things that stood out to me from this section:
a.) The ash and mists are so heavy that people cannot see the stars and if people have heard of them they are more rumor than real. Until I read that I had not quite gotten just how pervasive the ash and mist were in this world. That Vin could only see them because of her use of allomancy to enhance her senses really drove the point home. I’m even more curious now what happened, or is happening, to this planet that made it this way.
b.) Green leaves are considered a flight of fancy. It was telling when Vin was thinking to herself that Kelsier was odd and possible Pit-addled because of his statement that the leaves in Fellise should be green, not brown.
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Extra special thanks to TBM for coming up with our questions this week. We will have another guest question writer next week!
Sanderson is taking us on an exciting adventure, isn’t he? Please be sure to link to your Part 2 discussion post below and have fun visiting everyone and ruminating on what we have read thus far.
Hi Carl. I put my post up. I’ll be back later to comment on your blog and on the other participants. I’m off to the London Book Fair for the day…You would love it! Maybe I can find a copy of Neverwhere there 🙂
I’m thrilled for you, and of course very envious at the same time. 🙂 Have a great time and find some cool treasures.
So where did Kelsier learn about green leaves? He’s not older than the Lord Ruler or the ashmounts, right? Green leaves at the Pits? Did he travel elsewhere? Hmmm…. I look forward to finding out. Maybe old knowledge – something Sazed would know.
I don’t know, it was a small moment but one that really stood out to me and kicked the mystery/intrigue level up quite a few notches for me.
It also makes me wonder a bit about what magic must still be present for such a world to even grow enough food to sustain a population. I’m wondering what happened to change the world so drastically and whether the Lord Ruler did it or took advantage of something that happened naturally to put himself in power.
Me too. I keep wondering if it was some kind of cataclysmic event on the world or some kind of dying sun type event.
I’m also wondering if the Lord Ruler took advantage of it or if he simply found a religion that fit him, like Sazed describes, and maybe truly believes he is what he says, some divine one called to rule.
What really worries me is that the Lord Ruler is somehow using magic to keep the planet alive and that removing him will be really bad for everyone: I do hope I’m wrong! 🙁
That would really be bad!
Perhaps he has actually seen green leaves somewhere: it seems like he has travelled a lot since his escape. However, you could be right about another Keeper carrying knowledge of plants or nature where Sazed is all about religion.
Yes, and if he has, does that mean there is some part of the planet not affected by the ash?
The whole green versus brown plants and the not-so-visible stars were telling moments for me as well. It really gave me the scope of the world quite well, and this far in the book made it more startling.
The one thing I don’t think this plan is about is greed, as Marsh originally assumes. Yes, Kelsier holds up that atium, but I think for him there is a bit of revenge and a bit of altruism in this plan. His habit of killing people that easily, though…it’s tough to swallow.
It is funny because I should have been more cognizant after reading The Way of Kings to be looking for these little things that told big things about the world, but I was still surprised by both of these moments in the story.
I agree, greed wouldn’t be the best motive for him, particularly since he could do something far less dangerous and less involved and get much more wealth and power.
I agree with you, Amanda. I don’t think the plan is about greed alone – the atium is a side benefit. I think this plan is really basic revenge for Mare, and then to accomplish a task that he and Mare failed.
I think I am missing something, I do not see Kelsier as having a habit of killing people. It seems the people he has killed have all been on “the other side” and in the way of his ability to stay intact (not killed).
There is some truth there, ibeeeg, but there was the scene in the first Great House where he made of point of letting the reader know that he, Kelsier, was purposefully hanging around, baiting others to come to him so that he could make a scene by killing more people and creating more havoc. Some of that was brought home when his brother got onto him about killing skaa and other “innocent” people who Kelsier doesn’t believe are innocent because they are in service to people he considers his enemies.
And the impression I got from the part where he went to rescue the girl that was going to be assaulted that he went in and killed everyone, that he left no one alive. That could be self-preservation, but gives off the feeling of being more about cold, calculated anger and vengeance.
Certainly, he has aspects of being cold and calculated with anger and vengeance and frankly, I do not blame him much – he survived the pits and that is incredible from what I gather. I imagine that it scarred him far more than what is visibly seen on his skin. He is definitely motivated to revenge Mare, and I bet his mind has taken on the aspect that all those who are in any way tied with the master is guilty too. Not saying he is correct, but I get where he is at. I do think we will see a bit of change in him – certainly Vin becoming gravely hurt has impacted him…how much? I am not certain, but an impact was made.
I think Sanderson has certainly hinted at some reasons for Kelsier to act the way he does. It still makes him a little more rough around the edges than the “typical” rogue-hero character. But that makes it interesting. This is another area where I would be surprised if it didn’t serve some greater purpose. I cannot see Sanderson leaving it out there and in some way validating Kelsier’s actions. I think that streak of unremorseful vengeance/killing is going to play out in the story somehow.
I agree with you – Kelsier’s unremorseful vengeance is going to play out somehow, and I think that it may play out with an error in tactics occurring. He may very well wind up getting someone in his group killed due to his vengeance, and that will haunt him too. It will be interesting to see where Sanderson takes Kelsier,and all the rest of them.
I’m wondering if that will happen to. It would make for a powerful story, and yet I dread it happening.
I get the feeling that his cold bloodedness is more about fooling himself than anything else: if he can persuade himself that he is killing ‘bad guys’ then he doesn’t have to feel guilty about it. I think that if he started to see them as individuals he would lose the ability to kill when necessary and that would make him weak.
I think you are right about that Sue, or at the least it fits with what I feel has been revealed about him thus far.
I’ve posted my responses for this week. Thanks again for hosting!
You are welcome, Michael, thank you for taking part!
Sazed was one of my favorite characters in this section. His knowledge is amazing; I know I wouldn’t be able to remember nearly so much. I also like the way he keeps trying to pick religions to suit people’s personalities. I wonder how the beliefs will be reintegrated into society if and when the Lord Ruler is overthrown.
Me either. I wish I had that kind of memory.
I hadn’t thought of that, but seeing how the Keepers roles would unfold if the Lord Ruler is overthrown would be really fascinating.
Ahhh….Mare. Yes, she is intriguing due to her importance in Kelsier’s life. I am very curious about her role – her story. I hope we learn more of Mare – I think we will.
I think, much of what is intriguing to each of us will be fleshed out, but maybe not in this book. Remember, this is the first of a trilogy so I expect many of my questions will not be answered once I read the last sentence on page 571 of my e-book.
I hope and believe we will learn more about Mare too. I’d be both surprised and frankly disappointed if we didn’t get some more information about her. She is a key player in everything.
I’m right there with you. One of my curiosities regards how much will be answered here vs. how much we will have to wait to find out in the other two books.
Responses have been posted. Lots of mysteries in this story. Sanderson certainly knows how to draw a reader in.
Cool, I will check it out!!!
Hi Carl
I really enjoyed this week’s chapters! I’m finding I really like Sanderson – he’s like a mindreader or something. Everytime I think of a query he answers it, at least within reason. I think he’s keeping us in the dark about certain elements like the ska and nobles just to increase the mystery – that sounds very lame doesn’t it – but it does work – I’m really mystified!
I love the points you made about the stars and the green leaves – I was also thinking of those points – you’re not related to Sanderson are you!!
I’m really getting to like the characters a lot more now. I really enjoyed the scene with Vin dressed as a noble woman and when she met Lord Venture – I sort of had it in my mind that there would be more to that meeting than first appeared – I can’t wait to find out more about him. And, if it’s not too soon to say I think I love the character Sazed.
Anyway, gushing over. Now off to read everybody else’s thoughts!
Thanks Carl 😀
Fun, wasn’t it? I’m getting some of the same thrills out of this group read as I did during The Way of Kings group read last year.
We are definitely in the dark, probably even about things we think we are in the light on, lol, but that is so much a part of the enjoyment, don’t you think?
I wish I was related to Sanderson, I’d be calling him daily and telling him to get to work on the rest of The Stormlight Archive. And then he would block my number and disown me. 🙂
I’m feeling (I think we are all feeling) pretty gushy about Sazed at the moment.
I think it’s really interesting that you said Dox was like Salah because, in my mind, there is a Harrison Ford link too. I really see Kelsier as a Han Solo character — we don’t know exactly what his motivations are but he always ends up doing the “right” thing anyway. I guess that’s why I trust that his motivation isn’t actually greed — although the power granted to Mistborns by atium is amazing and if he had it all, the Steel Inquisitors wouldn’t have any. I’ve also started picturing Kelsier sort of like a young Harrison Ford. 🙂
I’m glad you brought that up…everyone else obviously thought I was crazy and just ignored the comparison. Ha!!!
I’m not exactly sure why, but Dox’s manner of speaking and overall mood just instantly reminded me of Salah in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Kelsier sure fits the darker mold of the loveable rogue Han Solo-ish character.
I’m not sure how I’ve been picturing Kelsier. I don’t always have an image of an actual “look” in mind when I’m reading. But that isn’t a bad choice.
I get the impression that Dox has been picking up the pieces left by Kel for most of their friendship because he has that world-weary, put-upon air to him. I hadn’t thought of Sallah myself, but I can see where you are coming from there.
I hadn’t even heard of this series, but your discussion has not only lodged it on my reading radar, but it’s made me feel like running out to the bookstore right now, cuz clearly I am missing out! What a great discussion you’re having!
There is plenty of time to join in: we are only 2/5 through! Go on, you know you want to! 😀
I was going to say the same thing, Sue. Yes BIP, why don’t you jump on board?
I remember reading about the stars but it didn’t make a huge impact on me. I’ve lived in large cities for years now and I hardly ever see the stars. Too much light pollution. It is a shame. When I lived in Colorado, I loved looking at the stars.
And I can’t imagine a world without green leaves. I had a boss who hated trees and wanted all of them to be cut down. I couldn’t understand that at all.
Mare is intriguing. I would love to know more about her and what happened to both of them.
I love the quote by Sazed in your answers. So very true and so many of us forget how valuable people and their beliefs are.
I had that when we lived in Tulsa. I like living in a smaller town outside KC now. We have much less light pollution and can actually enjoy the brighter stars. What is different about Vin’s experience though is that she never even realized that stars were anything but a myth.
I don’t understand not loving trees. I’m seeing huge stretches of trees being plowed down on the road I take home to make way for no doubt some completely unnecessary hotel or gas station or some such nonsense on the interstate and it just pisses me off.
It is a great quote. Sanderson is a good one for coming up with quotable passages.
Late to the party again…! Anyways, I like how you caught the drastic differences in setting (ashes, brown leaves) and I do, was intrigued in how Kelsier said the leaves should be green. How does he even know what they should be, if Vin thinks it’s so crazy for them to even be that color? Mysteries!
LOVE that cover art!! Sam Weber is soooo talented. Have you read his thoughts on doing the audio cover? If not here’s the link 😀
http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/01/sam-weber-on-the-ebook-cover-for-brandon-sandersons-mistborn-trilogy
self correction….ebook…
Welp, ended up deciding to take the write now / sleep later route. If the post still makes sense in the morning, great success! 😉
Thanks for hosting this, Carl. Been great diving back into it again. Unsure how I feel about ultimately tackling the first 200 or so pages of the second book again, but if nothing else I’m curious to see whether my opinions from the first time through hold up when we get there.
For now though, it’s been brilliant. With where part 2 ended, I am exceptionally glad that I’m already into the week where I can read on! See? There are benefits to joining late!