Welcome Dragonriders one and all to the first of a two-part discussion on Anne McCaffrey’s classic novel Dragonflight. This is my first ever foray into the works of Anne McCaffrey and it is a great pleasure to being doing so as part of a group made up of other first timers as well as frequent visitors to Pern.
I emailed questions to the folks who signed up in the Mr. Linky on the Dragonflight Group Read post and they will be using those as a springboard for their individual discussions of the book on their sites. If you intended to participate but did not get an email from me, please let me know in the comments and feel free to snag the questions below to use in your post.
I will warn those of you who have not read Dragonflight: hereafter there be spoilers! I will being doing a proper non-spoiler review of the book once the group read is over for those who would like to get an overview of what the book is about and my experience with it.
Let’s talk Dragons…
1. I have hosted SFF-related group reads for books by Asimov, Herbert, Sanderson and Gaiman. This is our first group read by a female author. What are your thoughts on McCaffrey’s handling of the male and female characters in Dragonflight? Feel free to compare and contrast male and female characters and/or discuss various male and female characters in relations to others in the book of the same sex.
I was really interested in this aspect going in, given that it was the late 1960’s when McCaffrey wrote the two award-winning novellas that comprise a portion of this novel. Would the gender politics of that era of social upheaval make their way into the novel? Would there be any shading towards the female characters over the male, or vice versa?
Well, after a whet-the-appetite tease of the main female protagonist Lessa in the opening chapter, we are quickly transported to the ruler Fax’s domain where the women are not only treated brutally by Fax but also somewhat contemptuously by F’lar and the rest of the dragonmen. It was here that I got my first surprise as I frankly hadn’t expected women to fare this way in the novel. There were hints that Lady Gemma was more than the average cattle that the rest of the women were being treated as but not much more than hints. We are then introduced to the main male protagonist, F’lar, and a contingent of dragonmen whose assessment of the women doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.
But McCaffrey has an ace up her sleeve: Lessa. And this is where the second surprise comes in. You just start to think that maybe McCaffrey had just went ahead and written to the market as it existed and here comes this fiery, powerful woman, but not some perfect uber-woman but a young woman with plenty of flaws to balance out her strengths. In other words, a real person. Needless to say all this made me very fascinated in the story McCaffrey was telling.
Yes, Lessa is a flawed character at times, with her rash behavior and single-minded focus, but those flaws actually make her a better character to my mind. And it is that back and forth of the men and women in the book, never staying too long in classic-era gender stereotypes but also never swaying too far over into obvious “statement” characters that for me is one of the big selling points of this book. Which leads into:
2. F’Lar and Lessa are an interesting pair of protagonists. What do you like and/or dislike about their interactions thus far? What things stand out for you as particularly engaging about each character (if anything)?
There is such an interesting tension between the two characters in the first part of this book. There is an obvious physical attraction that each has towards the other but there is so much more going on. There is almost a Mr. Darcy/Elizabeth Bennett thing going on here as each are extremely proud characters and also very prejudiced in their beliefs in things being their way, in trying to control things themselves. You cannot help but get annoyed with them (in the good-natured way you do when you care about characters) that they don’t just take a moment to sit down, lay all their cards on the table, and put their resources together to get the end results they desire. Then again it wouldn’t be an entertaining read, would it? 🙂
I enjoy the way McCaffrey alternately keeps us in the dark about each character’s plans and then will reveal those plans in interesting ways, usually at the height of some really tense moment. I enjoy the alternate bickering and working together that these two go through and I enjoy the glimpses we get into their inner dialogue.
If I had to choose–and I’m not sure why I would have to other than for the purpose of this discussion–I would say I like Lessa much better than F’lar. I like F’lar well enough but Lessa seems to me to be the more complex character, to this point. It remains to be seen if that holds true for the rest of the book.
3. How do you feel about Pern to this point in the story? For those new to Pern, you may want to discuss your speculations/thoughts on the Red Star and on the between here. What are your thoughts on McCaffrey’s world-building?
I am a bit torn at this point regarding the method that McCaffrey takes to unveil this world. I know from cursory research that this is considered a science fiction book because of various elements but those are in no way made clear in the book to this point. Which is fine. What was slightly frustrating is the way in which I felt dumped into a world with little explanation as to what certain word and concepts meant and having to go to the glossary to find out rather than having that information be clearly revealed as part of the context of the story. For example: what are the Threads? What exactly is a watch-weyr? Now granted, I don’t want to be told a story where every single piece of information is dolled out info-dump style and there are some inferences that can be made contextually, but for me I don’t want terminology to be referenced over and over again without there being some sort of clear reveal as to what that terminology means.
On the flip side of that I like that Pern, on the surface of it, is a familiar fantasy world, based on a hierarchy and structure similar to that of most high fantasy. Thus even with all the strangeness of the world there is a great deal of familiarity that allows the reader to just go ahead and enjoy the important parts of what is happening and trust that the specifics will be revealed at some point.
Take my complaint as a minor one to this point, there is so much more going on that I was engaged in that I can live with those parts of the story that I feel could have been done better.
4. For those new to Dragonflight, was their anything that particularly surprised you with the narrative choices, etc. thus far? For those who have already read Dragonflight, how do you feel about your return to Pern? What stands out in your revisit?
I certainly had some surprises. I already mentioned being surprised at how McCaffrey straddles the line between gender stereotypes and strong gender roles throughout these first two parts of the book. Additionally I was very surprised at how her villain was such a dastardly fellow, then was further surprised when McCaffrey killed him off early in the story. I did not expect that at all and give her kudos for a narrative choice that shocked me.
What stands out? Well of course the dragons stand out as perhaps one of the coolest things about this book. I cannot imagine that anyone reads this and walks away from it without wishing that they could jump on the back of a dragon just once and take it for a spin. And being able to telepathically communicate with them would be an even greater bonus, turning them from mere beasts to treat as pets into fellow respected companions.
5. Discuss anything else that you feel passionate to discuss that wasn’t included in your responses to the above questions.
I mentioned earlier how much I liked F’lar and Lessa and it is their presence that really sells the book for me, and that sale is because of something interesting I found happening as I was reading the book. The opening with Lessa was great and it pulled me right into the story. Thereafter I found that the story would go through brief lulls where I would stumble over McCaffrey’s narrative and language structure choices only to be quickly pulled back into these longer moments where I would be fully immersed in the narrative. This in and out experience (which I am sure I am alone in having) kept me off balance in an intriguing way and as odd as this may sound increased my enjoyment of the book. Those moments when I was immersed were tense and exciting and made it obvious why people then and now connect with this story.
I find it interesting that McCaffrey is keeping me off balance and that has me looking forward to the direction this story will take. While I have some clues that lead me to assume some of what will happen, I have no idea for certain which direction she will take as the story has already taken unexpected paths.
Finally, I like the whole aspect of the knowledge that is being forgotten and ignored by so much of the world but that is so important to F’lar and is becoming increasingly important to Lessa. There are important things buried within that poetry that was meant to be passed down generation to generation and not forgotten and I look forward to how more of that importance will be revealed as the story progresses.
This has been a fun book to read thus far, can’t wait to talk about it with all of you.
I’ve read these books over and over again for ages but it wasn’t until more recently that I was hit over the head that there are gay dragonriders. Think about it, women can’t be dragonriders but the green dragons are girls.
Hmmm…haven’t gotten to any point in the story where there are green dragons nor have I seen anything to indicate gay dragonriders to this point. I’ll keep my eyes open as I keep reading.
I don’t think the gay dragonriders are really discussed in DragonFlight anywhere, but it does become much more evident in later books…they all run together a bit, so I don’t really remember where.
to be honest if no one had ever brought it up it would be such a fleeting thing I never noticed it…but then Todd McCaffrey started writing Pern and he did the series an injustice. IMO. (so I stopped reading his books)
I didn’t realize you weren’t reading the son’s books. I’ve heard lots of complaints, which makes sense. I think it would be the rare instance where something like this would work out. It always smacks of the other person not earning their own way in the world, building off of the parent’s success. I wish the only Pern books in existence were those written by Anne McCaffrey. It is her baby and in my opinion should be left as just her legacy, not something tainted by lesser novels carried on by anyone, son or not.
It becomes obvious rather quickly his POV of Pern and the dragons and riders and I am sure for some they would like his books but they didn’t do it for me. I did read quite a few of the books, the first few were by him and his mom and even those lost their luster for me but I hung on for quite a few books before I gave up in disgust. In all that I read I think he had ONE interesting character but had no real stories without more lust then story. Not what I wanted from Pern.
That is too bad. This is one of the main reasons why I am never desirous of any other author, famous or not-yet-famous, writing stories continuing the stories of books that I cherish.
It’s one of the reasons why the Holders think that the dragonriders are all degenerates. Although we haven’t seen anything said specifically yet, I can see it as the subtext for some of the comments made.
I remember being totally shocked when it became clear that the greens were all female . . . especially with the whole not-really-consesual sex thing going on . . .
I’m sad that the library can’t track down the copy of this book. I look forward to reading the non-spoiler review–hopefully the library will replace the lost one. Enjoy the book Carl!
I am too, I wish you could be joining in with us.
I had totally forgotten about the definition section at the back of the book until I was putting my post together last night. In regards to McCaffrey not being specific about Threads to this point in the book, I think perhaps it was intentional. The characters are generations away from the last living human who saw a Thread and what it could do to dragon, man, or landmass. I think Less, F’Lar, and the rest of them can only imagine these Threads as some ancient, perhaps even mythical, threat without strong parameters of the danger they represent.
I’m sure it probably was intentional, I just don’t think the mystery of it is conveyed with the skill that I’ve seen other writers use. It is ultimately a minor complaint.
nyrlmrtl is right.. this is where a lot of that complacency comes in. You can’t describe what you’ve never experienced.
Thanks for starting us off on a great discussion! The treatment of women was really fascinating, especially as I think it went right past my younger self. As you observe, most of the women are very marginalized by Pern society…but then there’s Lessa! I’m curious to see how others view this too.
Your last part reminds me, I have to talk about the poetry at some point! Next post…
Yes, I figured I needed to stop babbling and save something for part two and I am figuring the poetry and the whole idea of this knowledge that is out there that Lessa wants to be able to tap into will be something to watch for as the book, and the series, progresses.
“marginalized” is a great word for what I was trying to convey.
As a long time fan of Anne McCaffrey’s Pern series there are some things I’d comment on and hope that I don’t go past where anyone has read to date:
1. Fax is by far one of the most vicious, despicable, character that I’ve ever read about, and the fact he came from the mind of Anne McCaffrey still blows me away even this many years after having read the books for the first time.
Another point is that I think she rid us of Fax so early on because the “real villian” is the Thread. Or at least that’s how I felt. But of course Fax did do something “good”.. he gives Pern Jaxom!
2. F’lar and Lessa are a perfect pair. It so totally takes the two of them to become who they become by the end of the series. (sometimes it’s hard to talk, and not give anything away, when you have read ALL the books!) But she was smart enough to make all humans imperfect. And I found that as Anne tells her story she does weave lessons learned in living a long life. Early on we learn about complacency.
3. The Dragons. Oh my, how I love the dragons! Although you are only beginning to know them..you have some wonderful and heartfelt moments coming up with them.
4. Unfortunaltely the gay and female dragons part are things that never entered my mind, but will admit that far, far FAR down the line becomes a bit clearer… but in truth any indication of this changes nothing in the story.
5. I love Pern.. always have. (ya think?) I have always liked that even though they are intellectual humans that came from Earth to another planet, that now live on the very low side of the technical level..back when people worked with people and people helped other people and life was simpler but at the same time much more physical.. that always appeals to me.. probably because my own life was similar, not as drastic, but similar.
Bout time you showed up. 😉
Starting with your thoughts on Pern, I like that about stories like this too. One of the reasons I enjoy some post apocalyptic or dystopian fiction is that there is this whole ‘return to a simpler way of life’ element that often works its way into the story as characters have to cooperate on different levels than it sometimes feels like we do in modern times. I like Jack Vance’s Dying Earth stories for this same reason. In those they are still on Earth but so far into our future that cities and the technology they house are considered a form of magic and are often avoided at all costs. There is both an old-fashioned aspect to them coupled with a future science fictional aspect and I like that combination a great deal.
Very much loving the dragons, and am appreciating Michael Whelan’s paintings so much more now.
Complacency is really something we do learn about early in this story, Pat, you are dead on. I hadn’t quite thought of it that way but it is so true.
I like that she set Fax up to be awful and then rid the world of him quickly. That leaves all the “villains” we see so far afterwards to just be more like normal people with their own agendas and lust for power and the outside threats still hovering on the edge waiting to be better understood.
I wish you hadn’t read this so recently as it would be fun if you were “reading” it with us, but I’m glad you know the stories so well that you can chime in anyway.
Pern, the people, and the dragons are always with me. Recent read or not..I have but to think of any of them and I feel flooded with emotions of wishing they were all real.
I was thrilled to be lucky enough to meet Anne McCaffrey once ..hard to believe that white haired lady had all of Pern inside of her. When she told me she based a favorite character of mine (Masterharper Robinton) on a neighbor of hers I wanted to go to Ireland immediately! lol lol
I know just how you feel as I have a handful of books I feel that same way about. It is lovely to be able to connect with story that way and I always feel a bit sorry for people who miss out on this because they don’t like to read.
Ooh, I love the observation about life being simpler in some ways on Pern. I think that’s part of what I love about it. It’s this society where people work much more together, life seems a little slower, society is more in touch with natural rhythms. At the same time, the society and culture is marvelously complex in how all the different pieces fit together–and how they manage so adeptly without the technology we have.
Me too Cheryl. I like that simplicity and complexity melded together.
I am so glad that Fax has gone. He was just awful. Having said that, you have to hand it to him for being a really good ‘baddie’!
Thinking about the fact that this story has yet to introduce some sci-fi and also that I haven’t read that part yet – you have to hand it to the author. She has given none of that element away so far and you could be forgiven for thinking this was going to be totally a fantasy story (but we know there’s going to be more). Imagine if you actually read this book when it was first published, with no knowledge of what to expect and no expectations of it’s genre – you maybe see a dragon on the cover and think fantasy novel and then there’s presumably a surprise in the middle of the story! It’s really simple and yet brilliant.
Lynn 😀
He was so awful and she made him awful in only a handful of pages, if you think about it. Wow, he was a true baddie.
I think the sci fi elements are there but just hinted at. The between feels like some type of space/time continuum or wormhole thing and the whole thing with the Red Star definitely hints at some celestial problem that occurs on a cyclical basis. I’m really looking forward to more hints about that element of the story.
I like it when authors defy expectations and I certainly think McCaffrey did that at the time and still does given that looking at these books they look like fantasy, pure and simple.
I love it that the threat comes from the ‘threads’ it sounds so, how to put it, tame, insubstantial. Threads, how can they hurt? They sound so ‘not’ ominous. I suppose the name is going to belie the nature.
Lynn 😀
remember the movie Avatar?… if it weren’t for the spaceships in the beginning the rest of the movie was “fantasy”… this ia how the trilogy is… there are other Pern books that tell move how people got to Pern.. but once there.. it’s life on the planet and the planet dropping thread.
Completely off topic but I was actually thinking of the movie Avatar during my reading. Particularly the way the dragons choose their rider and then share a connection.
Lynn 😀
as soon as I saw avatar I made connections but mainly that it beings as a sci fi movie but is mostly fantasy.
It’s almost like the opposite of Dragonflight isn’t it. Dragonflight starts all fantasy and then goes sci fi and Avatar starts all sci fi and turns fantasy.
Lynn 😀
I hadn’t thought about it but you are exactly right.
Yes, I always figured that Cameron’s inspiration for the flying in Avatar was the dragons from McCaffrey’s books.
YES! The flying creatures in Avatar are totally a steal from Pern.
I’d actually like to see them do a live action version of Dragonflight, or some combination of the books, on film now that cgi can do LOTR-quality work and beyond.
OMG! could you just see this done by Peter Jackson?!! It would be magnificent!!!!
We can dream, can’t we? 🙂
Carl, I will be lurking for the early parts of this. I’ll link my review of Dragonflight when everyone is finished; it’s not spoiler-y I think, but does take things from a different perspective. For now, it’s interesting to read what everyone else has to say. Thanks!
No problem, lurk away and let us know when you post as we’ll all want to come over and check it out.
I’m so glad you enjoyed it so much Carl.
I see you went to the Glossary for explanations. I didn’t! I waited to see if the author would give the explanations for such important things as Threads, etc., in the narrative.
So far I’m not really in love with either F’lar or Lessa, but as you say above they are flawed and there’s a lot of room for growth there. That’s the point. I can’t wait to see where McCaffrey takes them (and us) by the end of this book, and this series. I’m reading the whole trilogy. 🙂
I plan on reading the whole trilogy as well, although I’m not certain I will start up right after finishing this one simply because I have so many books lined up at the moment.
I did go to the Glossary a couple of times just because I kept finding myself wondering if my mind had wandered and I had missed some important information. I should have probably been more patient but I didn’t want to keep thinking about what I wasn’t being told and have that dampen my enthusiasm for the book.
I would also like to read the trilogy. I must admit – I never went to the glossary – I think maybe that’s because I’m reading on the Kindle and it would be more of a nuisance. It’s easier just to flip to the back and go back and forth as many times as you want when it’s a book.
Lynn 😀
I totally agree with you about Lessa: she is a terrific character and all the more appealing for her flaws. I always find it difficult to assess sexism in fantasy worlds, because they are usually based on an era in our past when women were treated as breeding machines and/or property. If memory serves, we meet more prominent women in the later books and I think Fax’s attitude towards his numerous women is not all that typical.
I like the totally clueless way that Lessa is attracted to F’Lar and the fact that she can’t work out why she keeps thinking about him. However, they both seem to be so fixated on their goals and their sense of approaching menace, that I don’t think they had even contemplated something as irrelevant as romance. Thank goodness they are not gazing at each other with stomach-churning adoration: they are going to have a relationship that is much more of a partnership than we often see in Fantasy.
I love the way that she gives the dragons characters that are not simply human, but have a distinctly separate feel, so that they maintain their alien quality. In many ways, I think they reflect Ms McCaffrey’s great affection for horses.
It is interesting that you have picked up on the idea of lost knowledge. As you get further into the series more and more is rediscovered about the history of Pern, and I often wonder how much of it was already mapped out when this book was written. The short piece at the beginning about forgotten colonies suggests that it was at least partly created.
I too like that their relationship is more of a partnership and whatever it turns out to be is based not just on what they each want individually but that it is shaping up to be one based on larger issues and how their actions have an effect on those issues.
The dragons do maintain an alien quality, you are right. They aren’t just anthropomorphized humans.
I imagine she had some idea of the later stuff she wanted to work in or at least did a great job of weaving that in as she merged the two stories together for the novel. I would be interesting to actually read those original stories to see how much Dragonflight retains from them and how much, if anything, has been changed.
Here is a post listing all the Pern books… if you really do read the entire trilogy you should read Dragonsdawn if you are seriously still wondering about the planet and the dragons…
I’m not seeing the link, Pat.
http://herethereandeverywhere2ndedition.blogspot.com/
just my blog ..duh. sorry lol
Terrific, thanks!
Glad you are reading the Pern series. Just make sure you read them in published order… the story unfolds in a most amazing way. Later books were added here and there to fill in back history. I am a proud owner of a first edition hard cover of “Nerilka’s Story”… Enjoy.
Thanks Ian, appreciate the feedback and glad to hear you like the series. And very cool about the first edition hard cover. I imagine most of these books are hard to come by in ANY hardcover edition, let alone a first edition.
Sigh… being old means I bought the hardcover new at the book store. 🙂
Not that I want any of us to be older than we have to be, I have to say I find the fact that you bought it new at the book store to be very cool indeed.
I have really enjoyed re-reading Dragonflight. I had forgotten how ‘in the middle of the story’ I felt when I read this books many, many moons ago. It was almost as if there was a piece of the book missing; but it actually added to the enjoyment of the story. The ensuing books of course fleshed out the bits that where left ‘hanging’ in Dragonflight.
With regard to the time it was written and the male/female aspect of the story. Personally it wasn’t something that I noticed when I first read the book; but now I think that maybe Anne was testing the waters with regard to female emancipation. The late 60’s/early 70’s was very much a time of greater freedoms and women were realising their own power. So Lessa is discovering her ability to lead.
As others have commented; I have also enjoyed the fact the neither of the main characters are ‘perfect’ and that we get to see their flaws. This aspect makes them feel more alive (or 3dimensional) if you will.
I was surprised by the time that had passed when I settled in to read this second half…which I guess I should stop talking about right now and save until Thursday!
She very much could have been testing the waters, Juno. It is important to remember that regardless of the sexual revolution that was occurring at the time, the science fiction community was still a largely male-dominated community and any purposeful breaking out of the traditional mold would have had to be done cautiously, in my opinion, if she hoped to be a successful author.
That flawed nature has made them fantastic characters to spend time with.
I read this many, many years ago, but have slowly been reading Anne McCaffrey’s books (but just her ones, not the collaborations) in publication order since she died. (I’m not going particularly fast, you understand.) I just reread “Dragonsong” last week, so I’m feeling very Pern-ish at the moment, making this a very timely post.
Reading your post and the comments, I’d like to say that this book started out as two short stories, “Weyr Search” and “Dragonrider”, both published in Analog in 1967. I think that’s why Fax turns up as such an awful villain and then disappears again relatively quickly. He was created to be the villain of “Weyr Search” only, and since that takes up about 1/4 of the book, that’s how long he lasts. These days, when we read it as a full novel, his removal from the story seems to happen very early, but his part is done.
From there, the story moves towards Threadfall and he isn’t needed any more because the Thread is now the villain.
I look forward to reading Part 2 when it is posted and I think I’ll need to get on to “Dragonsinger” myself before too long. Thanks for a great post and comments section.
I only have 40 pages left and I’m dying to drop everything to see how it ends. I’ve been really enjoying this first visit to Pern and I can easily see how you would be feeling “Pernish” after your multiple visits.
That makes sense with the short story nature of the book and it actually works well, in my opinion, at making this overall novel feel less cliched. Having the major villain killed off early shifts the focus of the novel in interesting ways and leaves the reader reeling a bit, wonder where the next threats will come from and how they will be resolved. I like that she didn’t choose to immediately introduce another Fax-like villain into the plot.
Thank you for chiming in Kerry. I hope all is going well with you and I want you to chime in on part two as well! 🙂