It is Wednesday, Hump Day, and that means it is once again time for us to get our Sanderson on! It is appropriate for Part 3 that the discussion is on Hump Day as this is the middle of our five-part discussion. This week it was Grace‘s turn to devise the questions concerning this section of the read.
For those of you who haven’t read the Mistborn trilogy, let me just say that the book has been a real page turner to this point. Engaging characters, intriguing setting, and mystery that begets mystery. It is a richly built fantasy world with a deep, involving plot. It is good.
I cannot wait to talk more about it. And because of my growing impatience, let the discussion begin!
1. During the past week there’s been a lot of speculation as to the quotes at the beginning of each chapter. Now that we finally know the answer, does it change anyone’s opinions of the Lord Ruler?
Not to this point. Although we did speculate, I think most of us were pretty certain early on that this was the Lord Ruler’s writing. Having found the book that confirms this is a purportedly a journal of his does make for some really intriguing story though. At this point we have this idea that the Lord Ruler may have once truly been a hero, and may have once been a decent guy. But at the moment the jury is still out because these ideas about him are in his own words. I look at the evidence of the present–skaa mistreated to the point of being deemed practically worthless–and that doesn’t allow me to have a lot of sympathy or empathy for him. Now the story may change that, but at this point I can’t ignore what I am seeing of the man the Lord Ruler is now based on the things he either does himself or condones in the nobility.
2. What did you think of Elend’s group of subversive nobles? Do you think that Kelsier is right to dismiss people who could be potential allies, or is this another case of his anti-nobility biases showing?
I believe part of it has to be Kelsier’s anti-nobility sentiment, but that doesn’t stop me from thinking he is right to be reluctant to place any trust in a group of overly rich and obviously bored people who may be sincere but also may just be doing something different to entertain themselves.
What I am not thrilled about at this point is how quickly Vin began crushing on Elend. It seemed a bit cliched to me and there were times when I felt like I was reading a teen romance with too much “oh, why doesn’t Elend come to more balls? Why doesn’t he pay more attention to me?”. It is serving the story and it is a minor annoyance that may go away completely depending on what Sanderson does with this plot line, but I didn’t feel like that part rang true. Vin was very reluctant to put any trust in Kelsier or his crew and then, despite the voice of her brother in her head and her life’s experience of being used and betrayed, she quickly starts to defend Elend and seems to be trying too hard to hope that he is what she wants him to be. Don’t get me wrong, I am a sucker for romance in stories, but this small part of what we read this week irked me a wee bit. I know, I’m an idiot. 🙂
Now had I been reminded that Vin was a teenager before these moments, rather than after, I am not sure it would have bothered me at all. As I said, it does serve the story and it makes more sense after Vin reminds Sazed, and the reader, of her age.
As for Elend I am hoping he is sincere and is not just using her as that would make for a much more interesting story, in my opinion.
3. What’s your favorite part of the book so far?
I feel like I am repeating myself from last week, but I would have to say Sazed and the Keepers storyline is my favorite part. In this week’s selection we got a little nugget of information here (metalmind) and a little nugget there (feruchemy) that hinted that Sazed and his counterparts are so much more than we even speculated they were when we discussed them last week. And that leads into why this book itself is my favorite part of this book: Sanderson tempts with morsels of information and intrigue that reveal truths while unveiling even greater mysteries.
4. Now that Kelsier’s plan has hit some major stumbling blocks, what do you think will happen next? Do you think he can still succeed in defeating the Lord Ruler?
There is a lot of trilogy left, so I suspect there will be many more stumbling blocks ahead. I still can’t let go of this idea that the theme of “betrayal” will work its way into more of the story and it breaks my heart to think that one or more of these characters that I like will be a betrayer, perhaps even Kelsier himself. I believe there remains a chance of success in the plan…wouldn’t be much of a hero’s journey if I didn’t think that…but it also wouldn’t surprise me if Sanderson led these characters down a path in which they did not defeat the Lord Ruler. There is the potential for really great storytelling there as well.
Bonus: For anyone who has read “The Way of Kings,” were you surprised at all to see Hoid pop up? What do you think of his role here?
Not entirely. I had someone tell me once that Hoid pops up in other Sanderson novels, and yet I had forgotten about it being him specifically until this week’s reading. From the start I’ve been keeping half an eye open for references back to this story that may have been in The Way of Kings. But if in any way I was surprised, it was a pleasant one. I enjoyed Hoid in The Way of Kings. I hope we see more of him. This is a really nice touch that weaves Sanderson’s overall universe together. I like the idea that these stories and those in The Stormlight Archive are set in the same fictional universe.
Great job with the questions, Grace! Thank you so much! Next week Lynn will be coming up with our questions. Thank all of you who are helping out and those who have volunteered to help out when we read the next two books.
Please link your discussion posts below and lets get to talking!
The part with Vin and Elend didn’t bother me, but I guess I always had it in mind that she was very young. It made sense to me that she trusted the one person who immediately got her to act like herself, despite knowing that her trust was probably misplaced. But I do agree that Kelsier is right not to try to make an alliance with Elend. He seems far too naive to be a good ally, you know?
I agree that Kelsier shouldn’t trust Elend, but I don’t know if he is right thinking that all nobles are evil. Elend, like you said, is naive. I have a feeling he would muck things up completely, but might mean well. But the big plan is already messed up so who knows.
Amanda, TBM: I’m certainly with you on Kelsier and I too think he is going to have to come to some point where he gives up his black and white thinking about nobles. Heck, he is part noble himself in his bloodline. I think that the situation with Elend and his friends may actually set up a really good plot line where Kelsier is forced to face this rampant hatred he has for the royals. I also like how things that Vin reports about Elend coupled with Ham’s statements are making Kelsier think even more about the skaa.
Exactly, and well put! Kelsier and Vin are part noble born so there’s going to have to be a bit of a rethink about nobles by Kel. I’m also not totally sure of how bit a part Elend could play – he does seem to be a lot of thought and no action at the moment but time will tell. 😀
Lynn
I completely agree with you! I think Kelsier has a lot to learn when it comes to his prejudices. I don’t think the nobility can be all bad, just like the skaa aren’t all good (example: Camon).
I’m not completely sold yet that the Lord Ruler was once a nice guy. Like you said, he wrote the quotes. I don’t think many powerful people will write, “Man I was a real jerk many years ago.” I’m curious how it will turn out though. I keep remembering the twist to the quotes in The Way of Kings and I’m hoping for another bombshell like that. And if he was once a nice guy, what in the heck happened. The treatment of the skaa is deplorable and I can’t see any nice guy resorting to that.
I love that you wrote “crushing on Elend.” That’s so cute! This part seems a little awkward, but I think it is serving a point. And I have a feeling that her involvement with Elend will lead to that betrayal that you keep mentioning. I think some type of betrayal is in the making…doesn’t make sense that he would spend so much time talking about it and then not do it. I’ll feel betrayed 🙂
And Sazed rocks. I wish I knew that many languages, it would make my travels so much easier. I can’t tell you how many awkward conversations I’ve had and acted out.
I’m thinking that maybe the Lord Ruler really did defeat and is holding back whatever the Deepness is, so that even though he’s evil, he also has a function. It would be an interesting twist if he were necessary to the protection of the world, but over time became corrupted by power and lazy enough to put up with the stable but abhorrent class system that exists between the skaa and nobility. Then again, I might just want a twist like with the Voidbringers in Way of Kings.
I’m very curious to see where Sanderson is going to take the Vin/Elend romance, mostly because I haven’t really seen much romance in his other books in this type of way. It makes me think that he’s doing it for a reason and that it will be relevant to the larger overall plot. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with it for now.
It is possible, Grace. The more I we are exposed to parts of the journal the more I wonder how much of these prophecies were things that the Lord Ruler didn’t actually trust himself but then saw an opportunity and took it vs. what actually might have been real. And I like that we still have that mystery about this part of the story.
It would also be interesting if the Deepness was indeed real and its necessary defeat is what caused the world to be in this state of chaos, environmentally, that it is now.
I actually like romance in fantasy and science fiction, I just wanted it to be a little more plausible and I vacillate between feeling it is believable because of Vin’s age and less believable because she is supposed to be this girl who has been hardened by her life experiences to this point.
I think it’s interesting that even Sazed seems to have no idea what was in the Terrisman prophecies. It’s surprising that the Lord Ruler would wipe out the very prophecies that put him into power. Maybe he found out that they were using him for their own agenda, or that they were responsible for the Deepness.
That is certainly possible. I like how this revelation of a Terrisman religion that is allegedly forgotten has added yet another layer of mystery to this already layered story. Love that!
I like this new dimension as well!
Or perhaps there were clues in the prophecies that would reveal that he was a big phony and not the Hero looked for after all. Perhaps because of his lack of the necessary attributes he fouled up and caused the environmental problems now existing but by this time was too drunk with power to acknowledge his failings, even to himself.
That could very well be true. I keep thinking that Vin is more likely to be the one that fits the prophecies just because we keep getting these subtle and not-so-subtle hints that there is something extra special about her.
That would be very, very interesting. I would love it!
I think so too. Now I’ll probably be completely wrong, but that is why I am not in a job that requires me to forecast or prognosticate! 🙂
Maybe the Lord Ruler changed as a result of his needing to protect the world? Or maybe he’s just plain delusional!
Lynn 😀
That was my thought: perhaps he doesn’t quite fulfill all the prophecies, so it is easier to destroy them all.
TBM: I’m not either. I had to crack up when Vin notes that he seems very whiny in his journal entries. There is a bit of the “oh, whoa is me” flavor to them if you start to look at them that way.
I’m expecting twists and turns all the time too. Its great that with just one book Sanderson has us expecting those things now.
I know I’m being a little harsh on the whole Vin/Elend thing. I’m not sold on Elend yet though if he turns out to be a good guy then I expect to be drawn more to him. I waiver between feeling that Vin is acting age appropriate and feeling that a hardened street criminal wouldn’t be so quick to go gooey for a person they hardly know. Still, it really is a minor complaint.
As for the betrayal I still feel like I am walking on eggshells with the characters I like best: Kelsier, Vin and Sazed. If any of them betray the others it is going to be quite painful. And yet I expect it to happen and like you will feel ‘betrayed’ if this theme which seems so obvious doesn’t somehow play out in the trilogy.
I don’t think you’re being harsh. I quite enjoy the whole romance scene plus the additional element that brings in the form of Elend’s former intended and actually getting to see another one of the higher ranked nobles behaving so very badly (to a noble). Can you imagine how she treats her ska?
But, whilst I wasn’t too surprised about Vin ‘crushing’ on Elend I was surprised that she was moved to tears so quickly in their last conversation. She doesn’t strike me as easily moved to tears.
Lynn 😀
I suppose at the same time, though, you have to think about how much Vin is in transition. She meets Elend at that first ball, a couple months after she’s learning that she *might* be able to trust people. She’s overwhelmed by the beauty, splendor, and richness around her, and her automatic thought is “if these people have so much, they CAN’T be all bad.” Not an accurate thought, of course, but an understandable one. Then she meets someone who not only gets under her skin, but who seems to have feeling for the skaa in some way. Then, her friends all tell her that she’s a fool and should stay away from him – which, in the case of teenagers, is likely to make her MORE obsessed with him. And of course, after that, she spends several more months away from him, thinking about him, building him up in her head, erasing away the reality and leaving behind only the idea of Elend. By the time she sees him again, she’s already leaving her street urchin instincts behind, learning to trust the crew. So it makes sense, to me, that she trusts him. Maybe people trust those they shouldn’t trust because of infatuation or fascination, and that may be the case here. That’s why it rang true to me, rather than forced.
It’s almost like she’s having a trust ‘overload’ (not entirely true) – she’s gone from trusting no-one and spying at doors to bursting into tears in from on nobles and blurting out the first thing that comes into her head. She is definitely crushing!
Lynn 😀
I know what you mean about feeling it was very un-Vin-like to trust him at first meeting. But I think Vin is surprised herself by that: and she has been subconsciously using allomancy for a very long time, so perhaps she has developed some kind of magically enhanced trust radar. Or she’s a daft teenager. It could be either! 😀
I sort of agree with you re: hardened street raised Vin falling so quickly for someone.
Yet at the same time, pains seem to have been made to separate street Vin from noble Valette. She seems to adopt these persona’s so completely that it leaves her questioning which is the real her.
I also completely agree with you on the betrayal front. It needs to be there, but it is going to be exceptionally painful when/if it happens.
I like Elend’s spunk, but I don’t think he has the gumption to jump to action. If he does, I will completely surprised. Oh if Sazed is the betrayer…that will break my heart. Anyone but him.
I am starting to get curious about Lord Renoux (now that we have little tidbits about the others). Other than a good actor, there have been some other small references made that he is not what he seems.
I have to agree with you on the Vin-Elend crush thing. Seems to quick. While Vin is changing internally, this didn’t ring all the way true. But, minor annoyance. Still loving the book and these characters.
I couldn’t agree more, I think the Lord Ruler HAS to be much more than he seems. There is something really fishy about this not-aging thing and I’m wondering what it is. Is it some kind of cloning thing, is it some power he learned from the Keepers and then destroyed their religion so no one else could have this kind of “immortality” or what? Its all very intriguing.
Me too, I’m still very engaged to the characters, Vin especially. I want to see her lose some of her edge and have some of her pain be healed, I just don’t want it to feel like it doesn’t flow with the rest of the book.
It seems like it might be a bit unsavory as well, otherwise it wouldn’t be necessary to keep it so secret.
You make a good point about Renoux. I really don’t know what to make of him. He is very much on the periphery – is that because he’s just a front for the whole noble house thing or is he going to do something mean and nasty?? At the moment I haven’t mistrusted him to be honest. He seems to be set on his course but he’s an oddity now I’m thinking about it. What are his motivations?
Lynn 😀
They say the best villains are the ones who deep down believe that they’re completely justified in what they’re doing and they are the hero of the story. I find myself wondering if this couldn’t be the case with the Lord Ruler. He may have had the best of intentions when he started out, but he’s slowly been corrupted over the years and, well, we are where we are now. But if you asked him, he might think he’s the hero…or even the anti-hero of the story.
I think the plan has hit a major speed bump and now we’ll find out just how good a leader Kelsier really is.
That wouldn’t surprise me at all, Michael. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was in some way actually heroic but that he was flawed all along and those flaws resulted in the society he has created.
Yes, Kelsier’s weaknesses are and will continue to be exposed, as will those of the plan, and I’m interested in seeing how he and other characters rise to the challenge. The whole fight with the Steel Inquisitors in the Lord Ruler’s palace was very enlightening about just how big a task these rebels have. Seeing them essentially get their butts handed to them threw a really nice curve that I didn’t expect.
What he’s revealed thus far about Sazed (metalmind and feruchemy) shows a large part of why the worldbuilding in this book is so strong. It would be really easy to infodump so much of the information in the book, but instead he gives little teasers about what’s going on in the world. Instead of having the information that comes across read like an encyclopedia article it leaves you begging for more information about what is really happening.
Vin’s interest in Elend might be a little rushed, but once again she’s 16 when the book starts, so after a few months she might be 17 at this point.
Michael is right in his thoughts about the Lord Ruler, the best villains think that they’re right in what they’re doing.
I agree Adam. Look at how long it took for us to get this information. We got to meet and spend time with Sazed for a looong time before these truths were revealed about him. I love that kind of ingrained, interactive world building.
I agree that in most cases Vin would be acting her age, but given her trust issues and the life she’s lived thus far I just found it a little silly that her thoughts seemed to sway so quickly to being defensive of and enamored with Elend.
What I’m starting to think about because of the journal and the things Sazed remembers about the land and plants is what the heck did the Lord Ruler do to change the actual land? The Terrisland is ice, the plants are black, the whole place is covered in ash — how did this chance coincide with the Lord Ruler’s coming up? It sounds to me like he didn’t hold back the Deepness at all. I think he’s a scam artist.
And I am with you on Vin’s crush — although Sanderson gets the 17 year old thoughts and words spot on! I just think she fell a little TOO hard. But … it’s probably what I would have done at her age. 🙂
It may have been that he didn’t hold back the Deepness or perhaps his “cure” for the Deepness problem wreaked destruction over the planet. There is definitely something very important about the environment and how it used to be compared to how it is now.
Oh yes, the more I think of it the more I realize that Sanderson really does capture a teenager’s perspective on things well. I just wish she would have played a little harder to get internally.
I do not have my post up yet, a bit behind in the reading with just a few pages more to go.
Vin/Elend – I am not disturbed by their relationship. In some ways, it is believable to me because Vin keeps questioning herself while noting how much change has occurred within herself – how she is starting to take the nobility lifestyle as normal with the luxuries, etc. She has not had anyone truly pay attention to her for herself so I do find it a bit believable that emotions are rushing around her in a whirlwind. Her ease of telling Elend about he skaa and underground type movement was troubling though. She really should have held back, and that I am surprised with it but I passed off as a 16 year old girl somewhat desperate for attention…positive attention even if she does really recognize it as such. I certainly did not like her crying but then again, I have a hard time with girls breaking down in front of a boy before there is really any solid relationship. But, I get it though. As far as Elend goes – I am not certain about him. I think he may have good motives but I think he is also a spoiled boy who has yet had the need to stand up to anything. I guess, I am not certain that he has what it takes to hold his ground. And, I think he will betray Vin which means that Vin has betrayed the team. It will be interesting to see where this goes.
I am hopeful that I will have my thoughts posted tomorrow.
I’m being a bit nit-picky with the whole Vin thing. I think Sanderson does a lot to make it work and seen from many different angles it works well. I just don’t think the quickness of it works with what I’ve read into Vin’s character at this point. I think she is too trusting too soon and it just doesn’t quite fit the mold of how I felt she was presented in the book up to that point. Again though, it is a minor complaint about a wonderful (thus far) book.
what is that on the cover, a wind surfer? Very odd. Glad you are all enjoying the books.
I suspect it is a mistwraith floating in the mist. I believe this is a British cover of the first part of the book, they seem to split these in two parts each time.
Its great so far, wish you were reading it with us.
Huh, I saw it as a Misborn, in Mistborn cloak, out in the mists… I love these covers. Right now I have cheap mass market paperback versions, but i want these!
This week’s reading was really great! More twists and turns. I’m loving Sanderson’s story telling and can’t believe I held off reading his books for so long!
I know what you mean about Vin. Whilst I didn’t personally mind the romance element but did feel it felt a little bit too much too soon. And the crying – what was that about?
I’m finding the relationship between Sazed and Vin to be my favourite part. I liked the way Vin manage to glean some more information from Sazed even against his best intentions.
I hope Elend doesn’t betray Vin and the rest of the crew although given that they’re all in a bit of a pickle now we’ll have to see whether or not he could add any more damage anyway!
Lynn 😀
This weeks reading was very fun. Been itching to get to the next section since I finished it!
Now that I’ve got post up, at last I can!
Lynn, would you please also add me to the distribution list for questions next week? Or Carl, would you be able to if said list is yet to go out? 🙂
Email addy: naithin(dot)nahilin(at)gmail(dot)com
Also, if any help is needed for the next two books still, I’m quite happy to raise my hand. 🙂
Hey Naithin
This week’s reading was brilliant, this book is so intriguing it’s doing my head in having to stop reading. Thankfully I have lots of other books to distract me. Also, thankfully, I’m not in any way responsible for hosting this brilliant readline (which is just as well because we’d all be banging our heads on the wall about now!) Which means Carl will, I know, add you to his lovely list! (I haven’t got the first notion what I’m doing! Plus I’m very unorganised and usually late. Very bad!)
Lynn 😀
Finished the next sections reading already! I need to read the rest! Neeeed to! But I shan’t yet!
My goodness, I knew this part was coming, but reading it again, it sure reminded me just how out there and awesome it was. 🙂
Got you added to the email list and sent you this week’s questions, sorry about not having you on there earlier.
Too much too soon is a good description. He needed to draw it out just a little bit more and I would not have had any complaint about it at all.
The Sazed/Vin relationship is terrific!!!
I’m not entirely into the Vin-Elend thing either. I haven’t mentioned it in my posts because I think I’ve been pretending it just doesn’t exist. I’m not super impressed with Elend so far – pretty much the only thing he has going for him is that he’s a noble who doesn’t think it’s right to treat others like crap. Bravo.
I think this last section we read is really where things are starting to move. I always thought Sanderson’s books take a long time to get going and I think we’ve passed the warm up. With the army being decimated and Kell’s plan failing, we need to see the story go somewhere if they’re ever going to succeed.
I got more into the relationship as the story unfolded. The longer it drew out the more ‘realistic’ it became. Vin seemed to come to a more natural feeling realization of her feelings about Elend and it stopped feeling so ‘school-girl-romance’ to me.
Speaking of starting to move, this next section we will be discussing on Wed. was…Wow!!!
I am reading this book while I walk on the treadmill at the gym. It is so absorbing that the time just flies by, and I am completely oblivious to the four massive flat screens on the wall in front of me and the blaring techno pop on the sound system. Amazing.
I just want to say that Vin is a tough hardened orphan who has grown up on the streets, but that doesn’t mean she’s stopped being a girl. Do you remember your first crush? Was there anything logical about it? I also don’t think she wants to keep living the way she has been. It’s exhausting and isolating. She does it out of necessity, but I don’t think she does it because that’s her first choice. She doesn’t believe in the beginning that anything else exists, but after joining the crew and developing other ways to defend herself through her allomancy, now she has more options.
It makes sense that it would be awkward and emotional for her. Elend may not be the best choice for her, but the heart wants what the heart wants. I think she cries, because she cannot make a connection between the Elend that she knows and the nobles that her friends describe. She so desperately wants him to be different, not another person who will disappoint her or let her down.
I love this world that Sanderson has created and I can’t wait for the next chapters. Happy reading everyone.
I’m glad you are enjoying the book, Stacey.
It wasn’t so much the ‘logic’ of her relationship that bothered me, it was that Sanderson brought it on too strongly and too quickly, making that part of the book feel a little too much like a teen romance novel. As the story went on I became very satisfied with her feelings about Elend and their relationship. I think Sanderson could have accomplished all that, including showing how Vin was still really just a teenaged girl in the end, without having to have a few passages that seemed a bit too melodramatic to me. Like I said, I like a good bit of romance in my fiction and I’m the world’s biggest sap. I just felt like that small part of the book could have been done a little bit better, and I think it is a fair criticism, albeit a minor one.